Updates

116 Responses to Updates

1. Dylan Robinson says:

   July 20, 2022 at 7:48 am

   I recall you mentioned considering moving Dick’s recruitment out of Year One a bit ago- what happened there?

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   • Collin Colsher says:

     July 22, 2022 at 9:18 pm

     Still waiting for a few series, notably TK’s Killing Time, to wrap before I examine a Robin move again. (Although, I’m not sure it’s going to mention or hint at Robin at all…) Haven’t forgotten about this, though!

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2. Dylan Robinson says:

   July 21, 2022 at 8:15 pm

   Also, you may be interested to hear that we’re getting a Tom King book titled ‘Gotham: Year One’, a mid-20th century tale starring Slam Bradley in a noir mystery about a stolen Wayne heir, supposedly showing the tipping point from Alan Scott’s gritty-but-decent Gotham and Batman’s hellhole Gotham.

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   • Collin Colsher says:

     July 22, 2022 at 9:19 pm

     Thanks, Dylan. Didn’t hear about that. I’ll def check it out when it comes out!

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3. Drive a Sandwich says:

   October 24, 2022 at 2:29 pm

   Why is Batman: The Detective in the past now? I had assumed as the present neared its future, it would be disregarded. The idea it could have already happened seems surprising .

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   • Collin Colsher says:

     October 24, 2022 at 10:58 pm

     For a handful of reasons, most notably Ducard’s age (only 59-years-old), the Wayne Manor Batcave still being in use, Amina has already debuted as Squire by Dark Crisis, and if Alfred stays back for good, then it throws a wrench in its narrative. Either we add a lot of caveats to keep in in the near future, it has already occurred, or it’s non-canon (i.e. can be disregarded). Tom Taylor definitely intended it to be a future story, but aside from Bruce’s haircut, it actually reads as taking place in current day. Just re-read it, and it doesn’t feel like a future tale at all really. More Elseworlds-ish than anything else. Honestly, I’m leaning on throwing it out entirely. We’ll see.

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     • Collin Colsher says:

       October 25, 2022 at 8:55 pm

       The more I think about this, the more I think that I’m going to move it back to the future section, just with a few minor caveats.

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       • Drive a Sandwich says:

         November 2, 2022 at 7:21 pm

         Oh, I’m glad you reconsidered that one! I do think this is the best choice for now

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4. Antonio says:

   October 28, 2022 at 2:55 am

   Hey Collin, What About The ONE BAD DAY series? I saw you included the Two Face story only. Are the Riddler and Penguin’s issues non-canon? I’m also scratching my head for Batman: Fortress… That seems out-of-con to me, so may be that’s why you haven’t included it? I guess Alfred In B Vs R is not the real Alfred based on the last scene of issue n.2 Guess Alfie is really gone forever. Shame to all DC for that!

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   • Collin Colsher says:

     October 28, 2022 at 3:59 pm

     Riddler is non-canon. I’ve placed Penguin in the future section, although it could also easily be non-canon. And Two-Face could be on the chopping block depending on what occurs in other contemporary stories. I think Alfred is coming back… but we’ll see.

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5. Dylan Robinson says:

   November 8, 2022 at 9:32 am

   I have a question about New Golden Age- since these flashbacks all appear to take place on Prime Earth, what do we make of Power Girl and Sylvester Pemberton appearing in the ‘1972’ section? Since Sylvester has to be rescued by the League, I see a couple of options. A) All of the JLA/JSA team-ups are, in Prime Earth, time travel adventures instead of inter-dimensional crossovers. A little muddy of an explanation, but it works. B) The JLA was also around in the 70s in current continuity. This seems unlikely, given that Geoff also has Catwoman in her Year One costume in a section listed as ‘thirteen years ago’. C) The year listing on that page is just a cheeky reference to the year the comic in question came out, and shouldn’t be taken as continuity (see also: your decision regarding the reference to The Hill happening 23 years ago). Any thoughts, outside of ‘why must you torture me so, Geoff Johns’?

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   • Dylan Robinson says:

     November 8, 2022 at 1:22 pm

     As a side note, despite the 1972 problem, Selina’s costume in the ‘thirteen years ago’ section actually roughly lines up, despite appearing not to at first, because Selina wore her Year One costume in her story in Showcase 93′.

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     • Collin Colsher says:

       November 8, 2022 at 2:58 pm

       My bigger question is how does this jibe with Batman Beyond? If Bruce dies when Helena is age eighteen, and Helena is already in elementary school by 2032, then this means Bruce must likely die in the mid 2040s. So does all the Batman Beyond stuff get squished before that? And what is the reason for Bruce being in costume when he is killed? The entire New Golden Age #1 issue seems to crib heavily from Earth-2 material, especially in regard to Huntress, Bruce, and Selina. If Johns is really merging this into primary canon, it’ll take some chronological gymnastics to make it work with the future stuff that is already definitively set in stone. Not to mention, yet another contradictory Bruce Wayne death, which I’m assuming would trump all the others. Not saying it can’t be done, but I feel like I need to wait a bit for a few more issues in order to really see what Johns has up his sleeve.

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       • Dylan Robinson says:

         November 8, 2022 at 4:58 pm

         I do think that Helena’s origin timeline is probably just one of many possible futures, of which Batman Beyond is also one.

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         • Collin Colsher says:

           November 8, 2022 at 6:36 pm

           I hear you, although that’s not technically how my site functions, nor how I approach my personal headcanon (or a even a more concrete canon). Sure, there are myriad alternate futures throughout Hypertime, but some items definitively weave back and forth through the primary timeline, with certain stories and characters making significant impact (sometimes via time travel, but also through other narrative means) on the main line. Terry McGinnis and other members of the McGinnis family are definitively canon to Earth-0, as was Tom King’s version of Bruce’s death by cancer as an old man (at least for an undetermined period that may or may not have ended, anyway). So in my mind, everything in the future must jibe with everything else, much akin to how things must co-exist in an orderly fashion with other things in present day and throughout history. (tbh I think right now that both Batman Beyond and New Golden Age can co-exist with minimal caveats, but I think TK’s death of Bruce by cancer might finally be 100% out on Earth-0.) However, I’d be remiss if I didn’t acknowledge and give praise to what you are saying. There have been plenty of alternate futures that had to be averted (and which were averted, to be relegated/discarded as Hypertimeline castoffs). Could this be the case? For sure. As you say, Johns isn’t making it easy. He never did, but I think he’s got a great head on his shoulders for this stuff, so I’m looking forward to the JSA series.

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           • Dylan Robinson says:

             November 9, 2022 at 11:14 am

             I tend to think of DC’s future (and hypertime) like this: The present is a very real thing in DC. It is a point moving across time. On one end, in front of the present, there are infinite possible futures existing in hypertime. Some are more likely than others, and many share aspects. As the present pulls across time like a zipper, it collapses the possible futures it crosses into a linear history. As an example, there are many different versions of the legion in the future, and there will be, until the present moment crosses the year 3000. Until the present moment passes over them, Justice League 3001, Retroboot Legion, Bendis Legion, etc, are all equally possible futures and thus are also equally capable of interacting with the present. Once the present moment hits, those possibilities remain in the sea of hypertime, but are no longer directly connected to the ‘timeline’, so to speak.

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             • Collin Colsher says:

               November 9, 2022 at 12:47 pm

               So by your interpretation, the Legion in Bendis’ recent JL vs Legion, while Earth-0 canon now, could wind up being an alternate Hypertime Legion? i.e. We cannot deny that the JL had some interaction with the Legion and traveled into the future, but maybe the JL traveled to an alternate future, not their own primary future?

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               • Dylan Robinson says:

                 November 21, 2022 at 2:24 pm

                 Sorry that it took me so long to respond to this- life and work, all that. In my interpretation, all of the future Legions are equally canon and ‘real’ until they are made conclusively impossible by something occurring in the present. Bendis’ Legion co-exists with Retroboot Legion, Five Years Later Legion, Reboot Legion, Zero Hour Legion, Justice League 3000, etc. Yes, I am actively ignoring the explanation from Legion of Three Worlds because I think it’s silly. They are all equally valid possible futures, and all of them can interact with the ‘present’ through time travel. IE, there is no ‘primary’ future, only possible futures. I suspect there may be some more evidence for my headcanon here soon, given that the new JSA book is going to deal with the Legion and in Flashpoint Beyond, Rip’s crazyboard mentioned ‘Legions of Four Worlds’.

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                 • Collin Colsher says:

                   November 21, 2022 at 7:17 pm

                   No worries on the delay! I like your idea of “canon and ‘real’ until they are made conclusively impossible by something occurring in the present.” That could honestly apply to both our viewpoints in some fashion. Anyway, I think I’m going to do a deep dive blog entry about this very topic (it’s been a while since I wrote something like that). Time travel is a literal paradox, so there’s always something of the realm of impossibility and improbability attached to it. And I’m def going to wait for a few JSA issues to come out before I put anything on the site. God only knows where Johns is really going with everything.

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6. Dylan Robinson says:

   November 28, 2022 at 8:55 am

   Boy howdy, Geoff Johns is REALLY committed to making timeline problems, ain’t he. Based on the preview for tomorrow’s issue, we now have two separate Geoff issues implying that Batman began his first year fourteen years ago, and I’ve got a friend at a shop saying that later stuff in that issue repeats the thing about the All-Star Comics relaunch with Power Girl and Sylvester Pemberton being around in the 1970s. I could potentially abide a genuine fourteen year timeline if it weren’t for, y’know, the chronologically twelve year old Jon Kent who was born after the Death of Superman (I’m choosing to ignore the Astrid Arkham problem at the moment, since she’s a much more minor character), but Geoff, my pal, you can’t have the Seven Soldiers be rescued by the JLA before they exist! Also, having Power Girl operating before Superman is just plain weird! I really don’t get why they didn’t just have him label these panels ‘not so long ago’ and ‘many years ago’, etc. The specific years only cause more problems.

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   • Collin Colsher says:

     November 28, 2022 at 11:19 am

     I bet Geoff Johns is placing Power Girl and Sylvester Pemberton in the 1970s, implying that they were rookies then, but like their teammates obtained extended youth. I guess? Now, I haven’t seen any previews yet, but I’m interested to see the specificity of a “fourteen year” timeline. That seems quite odd. As you say, it muddles up the Jon Kent stuff for sure. It would also mean that Damian was conceived in Batman’s first year, which is also no good nonsense. In any case, it all seems a bit odd, which is why I’m holding off on adding most of the Johns stuff for a bit. I want to see how it all shakes out, see if I can really step back and see the forest for the trees after a handful of issues have been released. We’ll see…

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     • Collin Colsher says:

       November 29, 2022 at 10:50 am

       Ok, having read JSA #1, Johns is clearly doing some weird stuff with time and timelines. The entire arc is going to revolve around Huntress battling Per Degaton through time, with her trying to undo his machinations. I think by arc’s end, we could have a consistent version of things that could actually jibe with the current timeline. OR (equally likely) Johns is finally doing what he originally wanted to do with Doomsday Clock—reboot the DCU. DiDio wanted to reboot the DCU into 5G at the same time Johns wanted to reboot the DCU into whatever he had planned for post-Doomsday Clock. Neither of them got their wish as instead, we got Snyder’s anti-reboot which kept the same Rebirth timeline going. Now that Johns has regained his power, could we be seeing the birth of a new DCU? Either that, or this is an alternate Johns-verse timeline. After all, a timeline where Bruce’s parents were killed 31 years ago (making Bruce currently in his late 30s) and where Batman only debuted 13 years ago is quite the novel timeline. In fact, it would squeeze all the Robins into a tight timeframe, basically going right back to New 52 compression (which barely made sense). And as you’ve mentioned, really zero room for next generation heroes like Jon Kent and Damian to have grown up.

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       • Dylan Robinson says:

         November 30, 2022 at 9:03 am

         I’m content to just ignore the ’13 years’ statements for now, because Geoff has also written books that directly state that COIE and Infinite Crisis take place a two years apart. That said, I have to imagine that he’s not just going to leave the 1976 segments completely unexplained, right? Related: my dumb headcanon I’ve settled upon is that any golden age appearance of Batman and Robin that can’t logically be filled with Flying Fox should filled with Mister Scarlet and Pinky the Whiz Kid. They’re surprisingly overlapping characters, to the extent that Mister Scarlet was even originally written as being from Gotham. You could even have a grown up Pinky take the place of E2 grown-up Robin in the All-Star Comics storylines Johns is saying took place in 1976.

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         • Collin Colsher says:

           November 30, 2022 at 6:59 pm

           Definitely adopting a wait-and-see on this. Love that headcanon idea lol. I should have started a Mr. Scarlet and Pinky the Whiz Kid chronology, it’d have been much easier on the brain.

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     • Tenzel Kim says:

       March 2, 2025 at 1:07 pm

       I just came across this comment while looking for your placement of the Batman: Urban Legends #11-13 flashbacks (completely unrelated to this), but thought I’d my understanding of this. The scene with Power Girl and Sylverster Pemberton takes place in between pages of All-Star Comics #63 which was published in 1976, so I’d say it is more of a “topical reference” than anything else, so it should simply be placed wherever that story is placed in the overall DC Universe chronology.

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       • Collin Colsher says:

         March 2, 2025 at 3:23 pm

         Thanks, Tenzel. Hope you’ve been well! Rarely a day goes by that I don’t reference your site to make mine better. If you ever need anything, feel free to shoot me an email. Also, with all the newer stuff that’s been released in the past couple years, I’m sure once the dust settles, placements will shift accordingly.

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7. Cinnamon Toast Crunch Enthusiast says:

   November 29, 2022 at 7:39 pm

   Will Batman: The Knight by Chip Zdarsky be included as part of his early years? Not entirely sure if its canon, but the entire story takes place prior to Year One during his training period and just finished a couple months ago.

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   • Collin Colsher says:

     November 29, 2022 at 7:57 pm

     Hello! It was already added some time ago.

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     • Cinnamon Toast Crunch Enthusiast says:

       November 29, 2022 at 8:20 pm

       Ah I see it now, in Rebirth! I was looking for it under Modern Age.

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8. Dylan Robinson says:

   January 10, 2023 at 9:42 am

   Looks like Human Target COULD actually be in-continuity, given revelations in the most recent issue.

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   • Collin Colsher says:

     January 10, 2023 at 10:17 am

     So getting frozen and shattered into a million pieces was no problem for the power ring to fix. Okayyy. But yeah, if that wasn’t really a Guy Gardner death scene, then this doesn’t violate any canon.

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     • Dylan H says:

       January 11, 2023 at 1:21 am

       I feel the revelation will probably be that it was a reflection or some kind of illusion using a Lantern construct plus the ice. I think next issue is Ice’s confession anyway, so we’ll know for sure next month.

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       • Collin Colsher says:

         January 11, 2023 at 8:47 am

         Issue #10 already says exactly that—it was a ring illusion.

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9. Dylan Robinson says:

   February 8, 2023 at 9:08 am

   Another hink has arisen in Geoff’s weird 12-year timeline: Monkey Prince hard establishes that Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman have been operating for at least fifteen years. Really wish DC editorial would mandate some consistency on this.

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   • Collin Colsher says:

     February 8, 2023 at 9:38 am

     Oh yeah, good catch. Justice League vs Ultra-Humanite 15 years ago, which hints that DC is operating with a longer timeline (at least 16 years long, but likely the 21 year timeline that we currently have in place). Johns’ short timeline just doesn’t make sense, unless it’s a reboot. We’ll see.

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10. Dylan Robinson says:

    February 21, 2023 at 1:04 pm

    Yet more of Geoff’s goofiness: To fit his weird twelve year timeline, today’s issue of Stargirl and the Lost Children is now claiming that Doctor Manhattan took five years, not ten, as was previously and repeatedly stated.

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    • Collin Colsher says:

      February 21, 2023 at 2:58 pm

      Oh yeah, he’s digging in, ain’t he? Do you remember by any chance what specific issues mentioned the “10 years of missing time”? I seem to recall that it started out as “ten years” (as explicitly stated in DCU Rebirth) and then it became more vague (just “years” without specificity) at some juncture. Never before was it five, though. Furthermore, Johns’ goofiness stands out even more in the face of Mark Waid’s recent comics, which are clearly fleshing out a longer timeline and trying to honor the Silver Age in greater detail.

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      • Dylan Robinson says:

        February 22, 2023 at 8:39 am

        I don’t recall the specific issues, alas, outside of DCU Rebirth. At this point, I’m mostly just curious why editorial hasn’t stepped in to force some consistency here. I appreciate editorial giving writers some leeway, but I think this is a place where they should probably be taking a firmer hand, lol.

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        • Collin Colsher says:

          February 22, 2023 at 3:03 pm

          I think it’s tough when there is a power vacuum and someone as big-time as Geoff Johns steps in to take some semblance of charge. Right now, it seems like the creators have more control than the editors, which is kinda like saying the inmates are running the asylum. Say what you will about Dan DiDio, as head of publishing, he definitely kept the creators in line and always scaffolded the power of editorial. Personally, I’m glad DiDio is gone, but someone needed to fill his shoes, and that someone never really came.

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11. JDMA12 says:

    March 12, 2023 at 6:59 pm

    I’m currently reading trough DC’s recent digital-first series, so I’ve decided to see which of the Batman appearences on them aren’t in here. They are Flash: Fastest man alive #9, Harley Quinn: Make ’em laugh #3 and Sensational Wonder Woman #6.

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    • Collin Colsher says:

      March 13, 2023 at 7:25 pm

      Nice! It was very hard to keep track of all those, although I did my best. Thanks a million. I’ll add these to my reading list and place them accordingly.

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12. Dylan Robinson says:

    March 29, 2023 at 7:58 am

    So- Gotham: Year One. Largely fits alright (save for the Patrick/Richard thing), some really interesting characterization of Slam Bradley, and.. one doozy of an implication in regards to Thomas Wayne’s heritage. Thoughts?

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    • Collin Colsher says:

      March 29, 2023 at 9:37 am

      I think it’s getting mostly positive reviews (mostly as a decently-told hard boiled detective tale), but in my humble opinion it’s yet another instance of Tom King treading very heavily upon pre-existing lore. It reminds me of when King had Booster Gold re-visiting (and tromping all over) Crime Alley on the night of the Wayne Murders. The implication with Gotham City: Year One is nearly more than that. Slam sleeps with Constance nine months prior to Thomas’ birth (at time where it was made clear she was not sexually active with Richard Bruce Patrick, and she later asks Slam to act as father figure (which he declines). Of course, there’s still an out for anyone that doesn’t like it, since it’s never 100% confirmed. I don’t mind the Slam-as-Bruce’s-grandpa revelation, but it is heavy-handed. Still, not as heavy-handed as the reveal that Richard Bruce Patrick was a boozing, gambling, womanizing schemer that not only kidnapped his own child (leading to her death) but also was technically the original “Bat-Man” complete with an underground “Bat-cave” trophy room connected to Wayne Manor. I much prefer lighter, forward-thinking tales that don’t dwell in the well-worn territory of the past while making twist retcons for shock value. There’s so much to build upon, yet I find King constantly getting grim’n’gritty with comic book history. Wally West, Adam Strange, Mr. Miracle, Booster Gold, Patrick Wayne, Marvel’s Vision… King’s depiction of all of them have left me with a bad taste in my mouth, and in the end, I’m not so sure that we receive anything of additive value for the line.

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13. Dylan Robinson says:

    April 11, 2023 at 3:36 pm

    I’m not sure if this would factor into anything that’s been mentioned on the timeline at all, but comments regarding Galaxy’s presence in the upcoming Hawkgirl Book places Galaxy’s solo graphic novel as happening six years before the present day: https://twitter.com/planetx/status/1645861240915525632?s=20 Not particularly Batman-related, but I figured on the off chance any of the points on your timeline are connected to Galaxy it was information worth knowing.

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    • Collin Colsher says:

      April 11, 2023 at 3:50 pm

      Thanks Dylan. It’s definitely neat that they are canonizing this character!

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14. Pocok says:

    May 28, 2023 at 6:45 am

    Dear Collin, I know its a long shot, but is there any chance that you can post (retrospectively) the Update Changelog between 7/3/2022 and 11/1/2022? I tried to look up web.archive and that part wasn’t saved/recorded, but I’m still curious what changes were made in those 4 months. Thank you in advance.

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    • Collin Colsher says:

      May 30, 2023 at 10:16 am

      Hi Pocok, looks like there is a strange gap in the history there that didn’t properly save in web.archive or the internet archive. I keep some old Update records, but I seem to be missing a gap between 7/4/2022 and 10/4/2022. There definitely were changes made during that stretch, but I don’t have an exact record, sorry! Here’s what I do have: –7/3/2022. Modern Age Year 8. References to Deadman’s debut come from Batgirl: Year One #7, not Batgirl: Year One #8. This has been corrected. –7/3/2022. Modern Age Year 8. Deadman’s debut moved immediately prior to Batgirl: Year One #7-8 (in which it is specifically said that Batman is adventuring with Deadman). –7/3/2022. Modern Age Year 8, Modern Age Year 10. Deadman Vol. 2 #1 has been moved from Year 8 to Year 10 as it features the death of Cleveland Brand, who appears alive and well in Nightwing Vol. 2 #103. Deadman Vol. 2 #1 is now placed after Nightwing Vol. 2 #103. Special thanks to Dave Challis on this one. –7/3/2022. Modern Age Year 15 Part 1. Power of Shazam #22 moved prior to JLA #5. Thanks to Troy Doliner on this one. –10/5/2022. Infinite Frontier Year 21. Added Joker Vol. 2 #15. Added: –10/6/2022. Modern Age Early Years. Added Batman #681 epilogue flashback of Thomas Wayne telling Bruce “they’d probably throw someone like Zorro in Arkham.” Added: –10/6/2022. New 52 Early Years. Added Thomas Wayne telling Bruce “they’d probably throw someone like Zorro in Arkham” (as referenced in Batman Inc Vol. 2 #3). Added: –10/6/2022. Rebirth/Infinite Frontier Age Year 4. As per the second feature to Batman Vol. 3 #12, moved the following from Year 6 to Year 4: Zur-En-Arrh hallucination, Simon Hurt’s debut, red phone line debut, and Achilles Milo’s debut. Added: –10/8/2022. Modern Age Year 15. Added reference from Aztek: The Ultimate Man #3 about Wayne Enterprises publishing books. Added: –10/11/2022. Rebirth/Infinite Frontier Era Year 17. Moved Neal Adams’ Deadman and Batman vs Ra’s al Ghul from Year 18 to Year 17, prior to Dick Grayson’s brain injury. Added: –10/17/2022. New 52 Futures End. Clarified some information regarding the start of the timeline and the end of the Earth-2 War. Thanks to Martin Lel on this one! Added: –10/19/2022. Rebirth/Infinite Frontier Era Year 6 through Year 16 Part 1. Updated/corrected the history of the two Ace the Bat-Hounds as per details in Batman/Superman: World’s Finest #8 and “Hounded” (Batman: Urban Legends). Added: –10/20/2022. Rebirth/Infinite Frontier Era Future and Year 19. Moved Batman: The Detective #1-6 from the future section to Year 19. Added: –10/25/2022. Rebirth/Infinite Frontier Era Future and Year 19. Moved Batman: The Detective #1-6 back to the future where it belongs. Should future narrative deem it unworthy of canon, so be it. For now, it lives on in the future section. Thanks to Drive a Sandwich for getting me to rethink this. Added: –10/30/2022. Modern Age Early Years. Martin Lel helped re-organize various parts of this section. Added: –11/1/2022. Infinite Frontier Era Year 21. “Failsafe” moved from Year 20 to Year 21, post-Dark Crisis. Added: –11/2/2022. Modern Age Year 14 Part 1. Added references from Showcase ’94 #3. Special thanks to Anthony Fallone.

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      • Pocok says:

        May 30, 2023 at 4:59 pm

        Wow, thank you very much! Great site as always!

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        • Pocok says:

          May 30, 2023 at 5:17 pm

          Also P.S.: hopefully someone managed to save that time period locally in a .txt file and can/will post it some time in the future, just for the sake of documentation!

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15. Dylan Hall says:

    June 6, 2023 at 5:42 pm

    I think the Zur-En-Arrh vs. Failsafe training montage in #136 is actually after the death of Jason. They flash to a Robin suit in a case during the bout and are discussing failures of Batman. I could be wrong, but if you look at how advanced the cave is and how advanced Failsafe is, I’d say he has been working on it for some time.

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    • Collin Colsher says:

      June 7, 2023 at 9:01 am

      Hey Dylan. I missed that on my first go-around, but now that I’m looking at it (and it’s weird design), this is actually the ROBIN OF ZUR-EN-ARRH costume, which we first saw in Batman Vol. 3 #127. While the Robin of Zur-En-Arrh has yet to make an appearance, this might be Chip Zdarsky hinting at something in the future. After all, in the main narrative, Bruce is worried about what other things his Zur-En-Arrh persona might have cooked up in the past that may emerge in the future. I’ll think about this some more though and I’ll def let you know if changes are to be made.

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      • Dylan Hall says:

        June 7, 2023 at 7:46 pm

        You are absolutely correct. I guess I also assumed Failsafe wasn’t started until after Tower of Babel. But maybe I misread that in the original Failsafe arc.

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        • Collin Colsher says:

          June 8, 2023 at 7:36 am

          Hey Dylan, the creation of Failsafe definitely goes post Batman creating anti-JL contingencies, which is reflected on my timeline. “Tower of Babel” doesn’t occur until Year 11, and while that story is obviously about Batman’s anti-JL contingencies, he comes up with said contingencies years prior. With Zdarsky’s recent output, though, it’s apparent that Zur-En-Arrh comes and goes periodically, meaning that all of his secret machinations (including Failsafe updates) could theoretically be sprinkled throughout the timeline. (Originally, I thought the building of Failsafe was only connected to the early origins of Zur-En-Arrh, but this is obviously not the case any longer.)

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          • Dylan Hall says:

            June 8, 2023 at 11:48 pm

            Duh, of course the contingencies would exist soon after meeting them. It wouldn’t just be days before Tower of Babel. And Failsafe is a contingency for himself, which would start after he creates those other ones. Thanks for clearing that up!

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16. Dylan Robinson says:

    July 11, 2023 at 7:34 am

    I’m curious about your thoughts on the placement of World’s Finest: Teen Titans. It’s clearly not concurrent with the regular World’s Finest book- that much is clear. Different team, different situation. My original theory was that it was going to be set between the original Teen Titans #49 and #50, because of the presence of Bumblebee (and with the team disbanding at the end of the following arc), but now that it’s out, with the appearance of Charlie Parker (and mentioning that he’s retired), I think that Waid is just flat out establishing a new iteration of the team that existed between the disbanding of the original team and the founding of the New Teen Titans.

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    • Collin Colsher says:

      July 11, 2023 at 2:25 pm

      I think it is a totally new iteration of the Teen Titans that fits in at some point after the team disbands (following Teen Titans #50-53) but obviously before New Teen Titans #1. I suppose it could occur prior to World’s Finest, but I think Waid might have it overlap at some point with upcoming issues of World’s Finest. (I think it can be the same team seen in World’s Finest, just with Bumblebee added.)

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      • Dylan Robinson says:

        September 2, 2023 at 8:26 pm

        I’m sure you’ve caught it since, but it seems like, per the interactions with Mal Duncan, Waid is instead overwriting the back half of the OG Teen Titans run. Admittedly, given that it’s a run where Wally West tacitly approves of segregation, that probably makes sense.

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        • Collin Colsher says:

          September 3, 2023 at 8:17 am

          Hey Dylan, I’m not so sure it’s overwriting the end of the Teen Titans run so much as continuing it, adding in story the preceded the debut of the New Teen Titans. But I’ll certainly keep an eye on it—especially since it’s one of the better books being published by DC atm.

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          • Dylan Robinson says:

            September 6, 2023 at 5:49 pm

            The problem is that it starts with Bumblebee on the team and THEN introduces Mal Duncan as a character Bumblebee hasn’t met and isn’t a hero yet, which isn’t exactly compatible with the actual silver age comics there.

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            • Collin Colsher says:

              September 6, 2023 at 6:08 pm

              Oh yeah, that is curious. It clearly occurs post Lilith Clay, Cave Boy (Gnarrk), and Golden Eagle… but sans Mal Duncan. I’ll look into this a bit more. If this is indeed the debut of Duncan, then I’m assuming we’ll see him become Guardian/Herald in this series? If that is indeed the case, then Waid has simply erased Duncan from earlier stories or, like you said, he’s re-writing this era. Either way, a change will def have to be made. I’ll likely wait until the series wraps, though.

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17. Dylan Hall says:

    September 11, 2023 at 2:35 am

    Quick question: when do you think the Batman Brave and the Bold #4 Part 1 story takes place? The writers revealed it was originally meant as an inventory story that they got to put out now since it ties into their Batman Beyond series. It seems fairly early in Rebirth considering the inclusion of Cullen Row, Alfred being alive and the costume Batman is wearing. Maybe I missed you posting it elsewhere, but would love your insight. https://twitter.com/JacksonLanzing/status/1693671494524788964

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    • Collin Colsher says:

      September 11, 2023 at 7:34 am

      Hey Dylan, I have this item in my Year Fifteen, just prior to Joker’s “Endgame”. I realize that my search bars can’t handle a mix of italicized words and non-italicized words (i.e. “Vol. 2 #4 Part 1″), which is why, if you were trying to search for it, nothing was coming up. I’ll see if I can fix this!

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      • Dylan Hall says:

        September 11, 2023 at 12:46 pm

        I thought he didn’t have the purple cape, yellow outlined Bat symbol til after Endgame.

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        • Collin Colsher says:

          September 11, 2023 at 1:18 pm

          Oh yeah, you are correct. That era is more a blur to me than like all previous 50 years of Batman lol. I will correct. Makes me wonder if I’ve made this mistake elsewhere. Hmmm…

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          • Dylan Hall says:

            September 11, 2023 at 4:13 pm

            I’m quite nostalgic for those early days of Rebirth, it was my intro to reading monthly. That costume will always be a highlight for me. There are too many comics, your hit rate is still pretty good all things considered.

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            • Collin Colsher says:

              September 11, 2023 at 4:33 pm

              Haha, thanks, Dylan. I like that era too, just a blur in my mind lol. Early days of Rebirth were a refreshing course correction from the fatal flaws of the New 52.

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18. Dylan Hall says:

    September 12, 2023 at 2:37 pm

    Batman Incorporated just wrapped up! With how it ended, this could be either before Man Who Stopped Laughing starts, during the same flashback time frame where he meets up with the Legion of Doom OR sometime during it (seems less likely seeing as how the action in California seems to happen over the course of a couple days leaving less time for world travel). Let me know what you think!

    Reply
    • Collin Colsher says:

      September 12, 2023 at 3:54 pm

      Yeah, I think putting the whole thing before The Man Who Stopped Laughing makes sense. I’ve changed it for now… although, it feels strange to put it (and The Man Who Stopped Laughing so far in the past—before Dark Crisis and material that was published well over a year ago). I wonder if there’s a way to place Batman Inc and Man Who Stopped Laughing at the very least after Dark Crisis? Do you think that there the timeline for Joker could be as follows: Joker Vol. 2 series, then Joker: The Man Who Stopped Laughing series, then Batman Inc Vol. 3 series?

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      • Dylan Hall says:

        September 12, 2023 at 9:23 pm

        I think it goes Joker Vol. 2, certain flashbacks (like the Legion of Doom confrontation) from Man Who Stopped Laughing, then Batman Inc Vol. 3, then the main plot of Man Who Stopped Laughing. The main plot must be after Dark Crisis over the course of few weeks because I believe issue 9 leads directly into Knight Terrors and issue 10 directly references the goon shortage caused by Gotham WWA. I think part of why Batman Inc feels so out of place is because the prelude story in the 2022 Batman annual came out a couple months before the first issue. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a delay. I think a lot of things (even Ram’s run) will be set after Dark Crisis so the whole Dawn of DC timeline makes more sense. Look what happened with the Failsafe arc. I wonder if they’ll retcon Connor Hawke as the Green Arrow for that issue.

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        • Collin Colsher says:

          September 12, 2023 at 10:23 pm

          It would make sense for it to be Connor. I doubt they’ll address it, but that’s the only fanwank that makes sense. I’m patiently waiting for Detective to give us a sense of placement. Hopefully soon.

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          • Dylan Hall says:

            September 12, 2023 at 11:23 pm

            They have solicited that the next arc in Detective after Gotham War ends will also be set post-Gotham War. I think the final timeline will be as follows: Shadow War > Dark Crisis > Lazarus Planet > Ram V Detective > First halfish of Man Who Stopped Laughing > Zdarsky Batman & Knight Terrors > Gotham War plus end of Man Who Stopped Laughing > Outlaw Detective arc > Zdarsky Batman vs Joker

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            • Collin Colsher says:

              September 13, 2023 at 8:32 am

              Thanks Dylan! I’ll take a look about re-structuring things once Ram V starts his new arc.

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19. Dylan Hall says:

    October 11, 2023 at 4:10 pm

    Where do you see Christian Ward’s Batman: City of Madness taking place in continuity (assuming it does). He has been on several interviews saying it is a sequel of sorts to Arkham Asylum by Grant Morrison and features the Court of Owls (who have not interacted with Batman in the story, so this could be before or after the original Court of Owls story by Snyder and Capullo). It’s obviously not a lot of information yet, but I’m always curious about how you determine placement and specifically how and why something is/isn’t canon.

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    • Collin Colsher says:

      October 11, 2023 at 4:30 pm

      In general, stories like this could take place anywhere, so I just look for key story indicators. If there aren’t any, and it fits in the present era, then it can likely go there. With Black Label, I’m also looking for key indicators of things that are screaming “this is not meant to tie into continuity,” although plenty of Black Label stuff is canon. In regard to City of Madness specifically, I’ll definitely wait until the series wraps before trying to definitively place it. But after a quick skim of issue #1, it obviously has to occur while Alfred is still alive. I would imagine that it’ll be post Court of Owls debut, but we can’t be sure yet. One of the Terrible Trio gets killed, but deaths don’t mean much when Death Metal/Infinite Frontier states that numerous people were resurrected at that point. However, this would help us place it in-between Death Metal/Infinite Frontier and the prior appearance of the Terrible Trio (which if I’m not mistaken is in an issue of Batgirl). In any case, I’ll def let you know where it goes once the series wraps.

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      • Dylan Hall says:

        February 14, 2024 at 1:31 am

        Hello again. What did you think of City of Madness and how it added on to Arkham, the Court and several other characters? I rather liked it and appreciated it all wrapping things up with a bow. Would love to see Ward tackle more Batman. In terms of continuity, I feel this is possible. It could go in the Damian-less portions of the Infinite Frontier timeline, after the finale of Morrison’s run. Let me know what you think!

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        • Collin Colsher says:

          February 14, 2024 at 3:03 am

          Hey Dylan, I just re-read it in its entirety. I think it can be canon, although imbuing another malevolent spirit within Joker (I think that’s what happens at the end?) seems like a bit much when Zdarsky and others are already heavy-handedly adding way too much to the Joker mythos as it is. Nevertheless, I dig the story, and I feel like Gotham Below links interestingly to the Dark Multiverse mythos. In terms of placement, I’d lean on putting it closer to just prior to Alfred’s death. The costume is Christian Ward doing his own thing—I wouldn’t really use it as a means of determining placement. In any case, a neat Black Label tale. I’ll add it in shortly.

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20. Antonio says:

    October 12, 2023 at 1:54 am

    I think City Of Madness is meant to be non-canon. Batman’s costume is not always an indicator of canonicity or non canonicity, but I really do think that this is one of those cases where strange costume + strange story = non canon.

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21. Dylan Hall says:

    December 21, 2023 at 12:28 pm

    I tried reaching out to Ram V about how the events of his Detective fit into continuity, but have not received a response yet. I did pose a similar question to Chip’s substack and he said it’s honestly left up to the editors since Batman ends up in upwards of 12 books per month. Which I guess kind of makes sense, I see why writers would put crafting a good story over whether or not it lines up tidily with others.

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    • Collin Colsher says:

      December 21, 2023 at 2:34 pm

      I feel like there used to be greater effort from writers to insert natural ellipses in their ongoing arcs, but it’s been over a decade since I can really recall such an effort being done with any success. And Batman being in twelve books per month is too much. (I read all the comics, trust me he’s in well more than just twelve per month on average.) In the end though, that response by Zdarsky only motivates me more—and shows that there is plenty of reason to warrant a site like mine

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      • Dylan Hall says:

        December 21, 2023 at 2:51 pm

        Are you able to apply to be the next Batman or DC editor? I feel like it isn’t crazy to have a shared universe that can have good stories and continuity.

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        • Collin Colsher says:

          December 21, 2023 at 3:58 pm

          Haha wouldn’t that be somethin’!

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          • Collin Colsher says:

            December 26, 2023 at 10:10 pm

            Having read Detective #1080 (and seen where the solicitations are heading), there’s really no way Ram V’s arc occurs in the middle of another one (i.e. in the middle of Gotham War). Ram V’s arc is much bigger than Gotham War, especially where it seems to be heading. I think I’m going to move it, as you suggested, Dylan.

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            • Dylan Hall says:

              December 27, 2023 at 9:39 am

              It’s just a weird run! It’s hard to place which makes it easy to read in a vacuum (making it new reader friendly, which is always nice), but it has also been referencing events and history inconsistently. We’ll see what happens next!

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22. Dylan Hall says:

    January 3, 2024 at 10:01 am

    Just leafed back through Birds of Prey #5 to see where the age 16 was mentioned and it appears to be just the character Sin. So I guess we don’t need Cass at age 5 in No Man’s Land? I always suspected Tim, Cass and Stephanie were early/mid 20s. Minimum college aged.

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    • Collin Colsher says:

      January 3, 2024 at 12:01 pm

      Wow yeah i totally mis-read Sin as Cassie. Phew. Thanks! Will revert. Cassie should be around 21-years-old atm. I thought it was insane that they were knocking her back five years in age! PS I have Tim and Stephanie both at age 26.

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23. Dylan Robinson says:

    January 20, 2024 at 4:10 pm

    > –1/17/2024. Rebirth/Infinite Frontier Era Year 21. Added Superman: Lost #1. Notably, Superman: Lost #10 retcons its own narrative (through in-world cosmic temporal hijinks), rendering Batman’s involvement in Superman: Lost #1-10 to just be attached to the first issue. I don’t think this is (totally) the case? My read was it all still happened, but that the Clark that went on the journey sent the other version of him created by the time-space fuckery back to Earth, so there are technically two Clarks out there- one on Earth, and one in deeeeeep space.

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    • Collin Colsher says:

      January 21, 2024 at 11:46 am

      Hey Dylan, I’ll be honest, I read Superman: Lost twice, and I still don’t quite understand it. I guess I can agree with your synopsis—that it all happened. But by story’s end, Clark (some Clark) winds up returning mere hours after the inciting incident (thus sparing him the trauma of living that other long life). In regard to our timeline at hand, the narrative through-line of Clark being despondent and catatonic for months upon his return is removed in regard to everyone else (even if Lois still somehow experienced/remembers it). In any case, I’ll take another gander at this one.

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      • Collin Colsher says:

        January 21, 2024 at 1:12 pm

        I’ve now read the ending multiple times, and man, this is a real head-scratcher. Time-travel stories aren’t my favorite tbh, and this one seems especially paradoxical for my taste. Here’s what I’m struggling with. Does the book end on Day One or Day Ninety after all is said and done? At the end of the story, with Superman having returned to Earth instead of Victor’s Planet (sans trauma), they show the issue #2 Contrectatio scene verbatim, only swapping out Victor’s Planet for Earth. This should in effect nullify the rest of the series from that point onward. And, in fact, when Clark returns from his mission at the end, he doesn’t know about the white solar suit and has never heard of Victor. Which seems to point to this being a new Day One—where Clark came back and Lois wrapped up her McGonigle case with ease. Yet, bizarrely, in this sequence, Lois still knows about the white solar suit and about Adam Strange rescuing Clark. Why would she know about this? In fact, if the Contrectatio never brought Clark to Victor’s Planet, then all of that stuff never happened, right? The entire 3 months of Superman having been upset/PTSD are gone, so that entire 3 months is fundamentally altered to a point of non existence, no? The experience of being lost and then having the bad life (which happens to old Superman) gets relegated to that of an alternate timeline, no? If there’s a loop that is created and closed, I’m not seeing it. I’m just seeing plot holes. I’m still trying to wrap my head around everything, but I’ll update the site accordingly. Again, I simply just don’t understand it in full, so it’s hard for me to correct. If you can explain the ending in layman’s terms, I’d love that.

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        • Collin Colsher says:

          January 21, 2024 at 3:24 pm

          I just read it again lol. And guess who makes a cameo in issue #6. One Alfred Pennyworth. This story is supposed to take place with Alfred alive, and with a beardless old school Aquaman. But it also has elements of canon that are more current (i.e. Black Adam as JL member). After having read this story now multiple times, it’s my firm opinion that it is non-canon.

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24. matthew lee knill says:

    May 8, 2024 at 9:07 am

    Don’t forget the flashback of Bruce Wayne and Nora Fries in DC’s Spring Breakout #1 that came out recently. Bruce was still a child and Victor Fries was already engaged to Nora. i start to question how old is Mr Freeze and how long was Nora Frozen.

    Reply
    • Collin Colsher says:

      May 8, 2024 at 10:32 am

      Hi Matthew, I didn’t forget! It was added the day it came out. (This update section is for any changes to the site that are not related to new weekly releases. I enter all new release stuff as it comes out week-to-week. Thanks!)

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25. Antonio says:

    May 10, 2024 at 2:31 am

    Hi Collin, what about Penguin 9 and The Boy Wonder? Are they canon?

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    • Collin Colsher says:

      May 10, 2024 at 7:49 am

      Hi Antonio, all of Penguin is canon. Just waiting to add it in once the series finishes. Boy Wonder reads non-canon Black Label to me. Seems to be a slightly re-imagined Damian as Robin Y1 story.

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26. Hassan Syed says:

    October 23, 2024 at 2:14 pm

    Why did you choose to list Dick Grayson at age 14 in your rebirth timeline from by the looks of it, he seems to become Robin or at least he’s drawn to be at around 12 like he traditionally is depicted as being?

    Reply
    • Collin Colsher says:

      October 23, 2024 at 2:27 pm

      Hi Hassan! As stated in a footnote in Y3, Dick’s age reasoning comes from having to combine 1. Tom King’s overall timeline (from Batman: Killing Time and The Penguin #6-7, which seems to imply Dick becoming Robin in later Y3) with 2. the fact that Dick stops being Robin on his eighteenth birthday (according to Marv Wolfman’s Robin 80th Anniversary 100-Page Spectacular Part 1). Aside from that, there’s nothing in contemporary canon (so far, at least) that has definitively given Dick’s age at the time of his parents’ deaths.

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      • Hassan Syed says:

        February 26, 2025 at 9:19 pm

        is this still the case especially since in Batman and Robin Year One, he seems so much younger

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        • Collin Colsher says:

          February 26, 2025 at 9:37 pm

          There’s nothing in canon (at least not yet!) that has Dick being younger than 14 when he debuts as Robin. Batman and Robin: Year One hasn’t given Dick’s specific age. (My perception of Dick in Batman and Robin: Year One isn’t that he seems way younger. I actually read him as being a teenager, so 14 makes sense to me. After all, developmentally there are some 12-year-olds that seem older and there are some 14-year-olds that seem younger.) Suffice to say, if anything changes, I’ll certainly change things on the site. Thanks!

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27. Jade says:

    December 22, 2024 at 12:23 am

    Curious where the Plastic Man series that just wrapped would go, if it’s canon at all?

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    • Collin Colsher says:

      December 22, 2024 at 10:44 pm

      Hey Jade, it’s definitely not canon as it doesn’t jibe with any JL or Teen Titans era, especially not in current canon. Also, Detective Chimp gets brutally murdered in it. I was unable to place it anywhere, although it does give very specific dates in Plastic Man’s life, which help generally place it on a greater overall DCU timeline, albeit one that is unique to its own narrative. I have a sneaking suspicion that almost all Black Label releases from here on out will be non-canon (as they all have been for a little while now).

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      • Jade says:

        December 25, 2024 at 7:28 pm

        Understandable. That Jenny Sparks series is sure getting hard to place unfortunately.

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28. Israel Silva says:

    February 5, 2025 at 10:39 pm

    Hey Collin, did you check on the Batman: The Multiverse of the Dark Knight book that was released a while back? Similar to the Batman Files, it is also an In Universe document, this time made by Barbara Gordon, and there was some attempt to keep the book in continuity as the creators’ original plan was for Alfred to be the narrator, but the idea was scrapped. It would be good to know if it fits, especially as the guide has a lot of information about the many Batmen of Earth-0.

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    • Collin Colsher says:

      February 6, 2025 at 8:00 am

      Another Mathew Manning, I see. I wasn’t familiar with it, but I’m reading it now. Thanks for pointing it out to me. Like his previous works, it’s very unique and inventive, so I give Manning a ton of credit for pulling it off. He loves making encyclopedias into in-universe kayfabe items. It mostly works, although you have to suspend your disbelief a bit. I’d say it’s barely-canon (maybe semi-canon at best), but I’ll include some info about it on the site. If Oracle really has this level of intimate knowledge about nearly every single alternate universe and hypertimeline that’s ever existed, she must have worked very closely with Barry Allen as he charted the multiverse in (as referenced in Dark Crisis: Big Bang #1). Again, it’s adapting encyclopedia/wiki material into an in-story thing, maybe to a fault.

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      • Israel Silva says:

        February 6, 2025 at 7:51 pm

        To Manning’s credit (and probably relief) writing about the broad strokes of an individual character’s history must be a lot easier and continuity-error free than writing their entire life up to present day like The Batman Files. And as you pointed out, as Barbara was heavily involved in multiverse study in Dark Crisis, I can see her getting some help from one of the Flashes, the Totality or even Justice Incarnate for good measure. (Or maybe she got her hands on Superman’s old computer simulations from the Silver Age, they worked just fine back then)

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29. Israel Silva says:

    March 19, 2025 at 2:25 pm

    Hey Collin, DC Just announced that Mark Waid is to release a new version of the History of the DC Universe, literally titled The New History of the DC Universe. There was some talks about it a while back but now It seems to be fully oficial. Any thoughts on it?

    Reply
    • Collin Colsher says:

      March 19, 2025 at 6:13 pm

      I just read that news as well. Mark Waid is calling it his “dream project,” saying further that it’s “a chance to realign all of DC’s sprawling continuity into one master timeline.” Waid has more-or-less been subtly realigning things the way he sees fit (mirroring timelines of yesteryear) for a couple years now, but it would seem that DC is ready to give him the official official say on things (presuming this is canon, and it would appear to be). I think there are few better writers equipped to handle such a task as this, so I look forward to the series!

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      • Israel Silva says:

        March 19, 2025 at 6:45 pm

        Looking at it, it could be either the best thing for DC and readers (and timeline builders), or it could be biggest nightmare for everyone. Making a official history of DC was no small task back in 1986 and it will surely be harder now almost 40 years later with so many years of stories and reboots/soft-reboots along the way. I’m more interested in how Waid will tackle the New 52 stuff that contradicts other continuity materials (like characters ages (Captain Marvel/Shazam notably) and the dual Superman from Final Days/Rebirth). He already did a History of the Marvel Universe a few years back so i’m trusting him on this.

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      • Kadam says:

        March 22, 2025 at 9:59 am

        I can only image the massive headache that book will give you if Waid decides to put a hard timeline in it haha.

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        • Collin Colsher says:

          March 22, 2025 at 2:21 pm

          I’ve faced many a headache in the past but have lived to tell the tale, so we’ll just have to see! Generally-speaking, I trust in Waid more than I have others before, so I’m cautiously optimistic.

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30. Antonio says:

    March 21, 2025 at 2:50 am

    Hey Collin, Antonio here. I was wondering what made you wipe out 3 Jokers? I’ve read ‘tec 1095 and nothing seems mentioning Joker… Also, how about The Last Days Of Lex Luthor and DC/Sonic crossovers? Are they canon? Thanks as always.

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    • Collin Colsher says:

      March 21, 2025 at 8:27 am

      Detective Comics #1095 reveals that Joe Chill is still alive. It wipes out an integral part of Three Jokers—and my favorite part of Three Jokers—the resolution, forgiveness, and death of Joe Chill. Three Jokers was already being held together with numerous caveats and fanwanks. This topples its narrative. It also further pushes Black Label as a concept into the realm of definitive non-canon. (I think that some Black Label stories can and do still fit, but they really aren’t meant to be canon.)

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      • Collin Colsher says:

        March 21, 2025 at 8:29 am

        I haven’t read Last Days of Lex Luthor yet, so I can’t comment. Since it’s Black Label, I’d venture a guess that it’s non-canon. (Moving forward, if any Black Label feels off even for small reasons, I’m not going to include it on my timeline.) Sonic/DC crossover appears to be canon. I’ll reassess once it’s complete, but it’ll probably get added.

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      • Dylan Hall says:

        March 22, 2025 at 10:40 pm

        But couldn’t Joe Chill have been revived in the wave of resurrections post-Death Metal?

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        • Collin Colsher says:

          March 23, 2025 at 8:06 am

          Hey Dylan, I hadn’t thought of that AT ALL lol. Damn, I’m going to have to go back and re-think this move…

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          • Collin Colsher says:

            March 23, 2025 at 8:44 am

            My main reason for eliminating Three Jokers was because of Joe Chill—and that basically doesn’t matter anymore on account of Death Metal. I was about to undo my cancellation of the story because of this, but then I gave pause… While I’m actually a fan of the Three Jokers story, I do think that the primary timeline is much stronger without it (and I think the story works much better as a standalone or as part of a separate Johns-verse). Three Jokers has costume issues, internal timing issues of its own, and reads as if three Jokers have clandestinely existed for many years (when we know that hasn’t been the case). I had surmised that, at the start of Three Jokers, since Joker is creating dozens of alt-Jokers, he’s managed to re-create the original other two Jokers. But again, that feels like a pretty big fanwank, one that flies in the face of Johns’ intention. Yes, you are correct that Joe Chill is technically an invalid reason to cancel Three Jokers, but now that it’s got me re-assessing how the story actually fits (and the intent of the publishers/creators—from Johns/Fabok/Didio/Abernathy all the way to Zdarsky), I feel like Three Jokers should probably remain on the chopping block. Obviously, Zdarsky’s entire run couldn’t exist without Three Jokers, which forms the psychological background and framework for his Joker stuff, but the meat-and-potatoes main action of Three Jokers doesn’t quite line up and never did. Originally, I thought that you couldn’t have “three Jokers” without Three Jokers, right lol? But it’s fairly clear that there was this idea of “three Jokers” inserted into the timeline (by Johns) and then Johns did this wild follow-up that kinda-sorta fit but only if you squinted your eyes. Then DC was like, let’s do our own follow-up but crib heavily from the essence of Johns’ follow-up. This also has me re-thinking what Black Label is and was always supposed to be—something that (rather ridiculously) hovers somewhere between canon and non-canon, leaning more often toward the latter. I think the onus on timeline-builders shouldn’t be to fanwank ways for Black Label stories to jibe. Black Label is a flag that’s telling us, “Hey, this could be non-canon.” If you see that flag, you should be actively seeking reasons to disqualify it, not the other way around. But I’m going to really continue to re-think this. Thanks!

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            • Dylan Hall says:

              March 23, 2025 at 7:06 pm

              I agree, I think it is easier to remove it than include it at this point. No other books (including Geoff’s own JSA book) after it ever referenced it. It could be argued Chip’s version is just Morrison’s distilled through the reveal from Justice League. Also, while I’m here, curious why you think the whole of the recent Detective arc goes before the current Batman & Robin stuff. I saw that recent reference to Detective in Batman and Robin, but I more saw that as a reference for the events in intermingling. These stories since All-In have been better about leaving air for other stories.

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              • Collin Colsher says:

                March 23, 2025 at 7:28 pm

                A reference to another creator’s arc is meant to show a level of interconnectivity, for sure. That level of interconnectivity is TBD, and we’ll see if further detail is provided. It’s sometimes hard to interpret the intent of the writers these days, but since everyone seems to be writing for their own trade paperback release, I’ve (for now, anyway) kept whole arcs in-tact. If it looks like there should be some classic single-issue-overlapping, I’ll def make the change. I’ll re-asses once things wrap.

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