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With special thanks to Dylan Hall, Israel Silva, Tenzel Kim, GetComics, and The League of Comic Geeks, welcome to the official REBIRTH/INFINITE FRONTIER ERA TIMELINE (aka “Post-Superman Reborn Timeline”), which is home to the Batman of REBIRTH/INFINITE FRONTIER ERA EARTH-0. This chronology comprises Batman and Batman-related DC publications ranging primarily from 2017 onward, beginning with a hard reboot during DC’s Rebirth initiative (specifically with the “Superman Reborn” arc) and including subsequent soft reboot alterations from Doomsday Clock, Flash Forward, and Dark Nights: Death Metal. Be aware that, in terms of nomenclature, the Rebirth/Infinite Frontier Era, like the New 52 before it, is still a part of what is alternately known as the “New Age,” “Current Age,” “New Golden Age,” the “Second Golden Age,” or the “Prismatic Age.” Initially, the Rebirth part of this timeline ran from 2017 to 2020, and the Infinite Frontier part began in early 2021 (following Death Metal). While both parts consist of different publication eras, they both belong to the same unified timeline. In other words, the Modern Age ended for both DC and Marvel in 2011, ushering in the New Age. For DC thus far, its New Age has had two distinct continuities—the New 52 and the Rebirth/Infinite Frontier. We’ll discuss the history of the latter below.
In July 2016, DC published DC Universe: Rebirth #1, the start of their “Rebirth” initiative. This was—to use William Proctor’s terminology—a pre-boot, essentially a precursor to a reboot that would officially occur less than a year later. Let me repeat that with added emphasis: The Rebirth Era aka Post-“Superman Reborn” reboot did not actually start with the publication of “Rebirth” branded stories in July 2016. Despite nine months’ worth of “Rebirth” branded titles, complete with line-wide blue curtain “Rebirth” trade dressing, the rebooted Rebirth Era didn’t technically begin until spring of 2017 with the multiverse-shattering conclusion to “Superman Reborn” (in Action Comics #976). This issue gave us the out-and-out full reboot that ended the New 52 timeline. While some of the murkiest voices of Twitter and Reddit argue that “Superman Reborn” is merely a soft reboot that extends the New 52, this viewpoint is incorrect. Subsequent “Superman Reborn Aftermath” issues, “The Button” crossover, Action Comics #978, Doomsday Clock, Year of the Villain: Hell Arisen, Death Metal, and many other issues corroborate the details surrounding the reboot as well.
Narratively, in “Superman Reborn,” the meddling of Mr. Mxyzptlk and the undefined seemingly-demiurgic powers of Superboy cause the spirits of New 52 Superman and New 52 Lois Lane to merge with Modern Age Superman and Modern Age Lois Lane. With this unholy merger of radically different pairs of characters, not only is Superman reborn, but the entire DCU is as well. A diegetically independent timeline, which combines both Modern and New 52 histories of these characters, is created.
As “Superman Reborn” clearly shows, the New 52 Superman and Lois are from a wholly different timeline than the Rebirth Superman and Lois, thus helping us differentiate between realities and giving us full confirmation of a reboot. Further differentiation between the New 52 and Rebirth Era can be gleaned from the simple fact that Pandora, Dr. Manhattan, and the Great Darkness created the latter whereas Mr. Mxyzptlk and Superboy created the former out of the latter. Creators Dan Jurgens and Peter Tomasi have also verified a full reboot. As have several respected comics journalists—including Andrew Dyce (Screen Rant), Kieran Shiach (Comics Alliance), John Babos (Indie Pulse: Comics Nexus), David Barnett (The Guardian), JK Zi-O (Honest Comic Trailers), James Whitbrook (Kotaku), Rob Jefferson (Comics Explained), Reed Tucker (author of Slugfest), Russ Burlingame (comicbook.com), William Proctor (author of Reboot Culture), Brian Cogan (The Ages of the Justice League), Jeffrey Brown (author of Batman and the Multiplicity of Identity), Alexandre Lampp Berglund (Image & Text), Martyn Pedler (Refractory Journal), and Dan Gearino (author of Comic Shop). Likewise, TV Tropes confirmed a full reboot. As has the DC Database Fandom wiki (although, it still combines the New 52 and Rebirth/Infinite Frontier Era under a single “Prime Earth” category). The great Rikdad, in an article about the history of Jon Kent, speaks to the fullness of the reboot too. Mark D White (author of Batman and Ethics) calls Rebirth a “partial reversal” of the New 52. Tenzel Kim (DCU Guide), citing Dark Nights: Death Metal and Infinite Frontier #0 as references, has appraised the post-New 52 era as having an undisputedly rebooted canon. David Harth (of comicbook.com) stopped short of using the full reboot terminology, acknowledging the complexity of “Superman Reborn” by calling its effect a “continuity transplant.” If there was any doubt left by 2025 (not that there should have been by that point), Mark Waid’s New History of the DC Universe series delivered the final word, cementing the Rebirth/Infinite Frontier timeline.
Furthermore, whereas the New 52 timeline started out as a six-year-timeline (and was at Year Ten by 2017), the Rebirth timeline stretched things out and added an extra five years of in-story time (specifically accommodating a new Kent family history), placing the DCU at Year Fifteen by 2017. When the New 52 dies (or, rather, is “archived”) in 2017, just like in prior reboots, the big occurrences of the dead-and-replaced timeline (in this case, the New 52) get folded-into our new timeline. This is akin to how the major occurrences of the Golden, Silver, and Bronze Ages got folded-into the Modern Age after the original Crisis. In fact, Geoff Johns’ creative intention when mapping out the Rebirth Era was to build a brand new timeline by synthesizing New 52 continuity with Modern Age continuity. (After all, Johns had been dead set against rebooting the Modern Age with Flashpoint in the first place, but Dan DiDio forced the issue.) Some other major differences between the New 52 and Rebirth Era are that the former features the “yearlong Robin internship program” and Superman dating Wonder Woman. The Rebirth Era erases those things. Also, the Rebirth Era significantly condenses Scott Snyder’s “Zero Year” and mashes it up with Frank Miller’s “Year One” and a few reimagined Golden Age yarns, which is a radical departure from the New 52.
In 2020, Doomsday Clock rebooted the DCU, but the majority of its massive narrative changes were immediately neutered by DC publishers, relegating the overall effect to that of a partial or soft relaunch. DC chief Dan DiDio had been planning his own “Generations” reboot at the time, thus axing Geoff Johns’ Doomsday Clock reboot in favor of his own. Shortly thereafter, DiDio was fired. “Generations” was officially cancelled, but it was too late to simply re-validate Doomsday Clock‘s ending because DiDio’s plans had already been set into motion. This obviously led to great continuity chaos for the DCU. (This flip-flop-flip was explained in-story by having the Batman Who Laughs nullify Dr. Manhattan and Wally West’s attempted continuity resets at the end of Doomsday Clock and Flash Forward, respectively.) As confirmed by Teen Titans Vol. 6 #39-40, Young Justice Vol. 3 #18, Flash #750-761, Justice League Vol. 4 #51-52, Wonder Woman #750 Part 9, Dark Nights: Death Metal, and several other titles, the combo Doomsday Clock and Flash Forward soft reboot achieves the following: It undoes the deaths of Ma and Pa Kent, but blocks their history from collective consciousness, making everyone believe they still died (for a period on our timeline). It restores the Justice Society of America’s history, which includes an active Wonder Woman in the 20th century, but blocks said history from everyone’s memories in the present day and future (for a period on our timeline). It restores Kal-El’s time as Superboy with the Legion of Super-Heroes, but blocks said history from everyone’s memories in present day and future (for a period on our timeline). It re-adds Barry Allen’s death in the original Crisis and his resurrection in Final Crisis. It re-adds Stephanie Brown’s brief time as a Robin. And it re-adds both Cassie Cain and Stephanie Brown’s tenures as Batgirls II and III, respectively. Our Rebirth Era timeline reflects these changes. (There are a few other minor re-institutions, but they are trifles not worth addressing here.)
Shortly after the Dark Nights: Death Metal soft reboot in late 2020, the DCU relaunched into its Infinite Frontier Era starting in 2021, reflecting everything mentioned above. (Notably, in 2023, DC had another marketing relaunch, called “Dawn of DC,” but it had no bearing on continuity. As such, Infinite Frontier remains an appropriate era label to this day.) At the outset of the Infinite Frontier Era, DC publishers began stating that “everything counts, everything matters,” a vague claim that everything from prior continuities was or could be canon. However, “everything counts, everything matters” doesn’t actually mean that everything is canon. (If everything is canon, then nothing makes sense, after all.) What it really means is that everything in the past is fair game to reference. Only after creators specifically decide what is canon from history can we the readers make sense of it all. For my chronology-building process, I stick to a set of rules. Every item on my timeline must have a specific reference, meaning something in a comic book that nods to, winks at, directly mentions, or flashes-back to said item. If I can’t locate that, then I don’t include it on my timeline. Does that mean it didn’t necessarily happen? No. But if there’s no proof, I won’t include it.
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Also if the new 52 died out and was replaced. Why are the court of owls still in existence? Joker just resurrected them! Also in Superman reborn Batman and wonder woman and Superman are ALL wearing their new 52 suits. That can’t be possible if the new 52 died and was replaced. Also rebirth continues exactly where the last days of Superman left off. With new 52 Superman’s death. So rebirth continues the new 52 and never erased it. Superman reborn only adds parts of his past with his current history.
Hey again, Leonard. I think you might be misunderstanding the fundamentals of fictional canon, at least as I see them. After a reboot, the new timeline starts as a blank slate—but only sorta. Writers continue ongoing stories, which canonizes much of their prior work (from before the reboot).
For example, there’s plenty of Silver and Golden Age material that was canonized (albeit in a new re-contextualized way) after the original Crisis. Such is the case for the New 52. Some bits of the Modern Age were still canon (albeit in a New 52 kind of way). Previous continuities get mashed-up and form the skeletal framework of a new continuity when it’s formed after a reboot. So, yes, the Court of Owls exists in the New 52 and Rebirth Era, and it’ll exist in the post-Death Metal continuity as well. (And it’ll exist after reboots for dozens of years to follow, I’m sure.)
To your last point (about “Last Days of Superman”): When Flashpoint happened in 2011, Batman Incorporated continued right where it left off. As did all Green Lantern titles. Those tales went on without a hitch despite the fact that the world had changed around them.
I think you are making an argument that “Superman Reborn” is a soft-reboot and that the Rebirth Era shouldn’t be its own separate timeline. (I think you’ve expressed this view before in the comments of my site.) Unfortunately, there’s a plethora of in-story evidence that shows the Rebirth Era is quite different than the New 52—and different enough to warrant its status as a separate timeline. If you don’t subscribe to that, that’s totally fine. Headcanon is headcanon, after all. However, my timelines express this difference quite clearly (and with plenty of evidence to back it up), so I’ll continue structurally as I have. Thanks for your comment, though! As I said, I’m happy to discuss your theories in more detail. Shoot me an email (ccolsher@gmail.com) if you are interested in a longer discussion.
I hate to disagree with you yet again but it’s not. You may continue thinking it is. But I will always know better because I like research everything. I have kept up with the comics since the beginning of the new 52 and after infinite frontier it clearly stated it went back to the point in rebirth before the Batman who laughs attacked Prime Earth. There is no silver age in prime earth. No golden age. No bronze age. Sure he has those costumes on prime earth but they were worn before the new 52. The three main suits he has worn is new 52, rebirth, and now the reimagining of the hush modern age suit, which he calls the “original batsuit”. Please sir, quit second guessing your timeline and only put in what DC says is Canon. Thank you.
After thinking about it for a bit, I think that Rebirth might be the stupidest continuity yet hahaha Obviously not because of you, you’ve done a GREAT job making sense of that mess, but damn is it multiple levels of stupid to have things like Year One and Zero Year coexisting, along with several adventures of the Golden Age/Silver Age that make no sense at all to exist in this world. At least when Morrison did it in Pre-Flashpoint he did give it good rationale and backstory that integrated everything, here we’re just kinda expected to take at face-value that the same Selina from Year One is the same Selina from Batman #1 and it’s like… why? I’m really looking forward to the next new universe, though a part of me wishes that DC would just have the guts to do a reboot in which they start from zero and go on directly from there, no flashforward stories.
Well the New52 should have been the first legit full-on reboot starting from zero, but they didn’t have the guts to follow through (and it was a mess). I would also love a legit clean reboot. It’d be amazing, I think. Rebirth was a reaction (maybe over-reaction) to the New 52, and now we are heading into uncharted territory where “everything will matter.” 5G would have brought us multiple generations of heroes—a lovely idea, but probably overcomplicated from a continuity standpoint (especially judging by Didio’s ill-fated Comicon tease last year).
If “everything matters” in a Marvel “Sliding Time” sense, it might honestly be for the best—and I can finally rest my weary bones and brain. But we shall see!
I gotta say I’m also not completely a fan of what Marvel does, I think that at this point the 616 timeline has gone on for waaaaaay too long over there to the point where everyone’s stories feel pointless.
What I wish DC would do is do a reboot from zero in which they follow the character from their early years, and stick to that continuity chronologically until 15 or 20 years later or so, maybe even a bit less, in which they give all those characters a proper conclusion to their stories, and THEN they reboot again starting from zero.
It’d be amazing because I really think that aside from being much less confusing, it’d really give creators a chance to keep reinventing and updating these characters each generation in all sorts of exciting ways, and I think it’d be pretty cool to actually see Batman age along with his rogues and really feel the weight of all the stories and years and such, especially if you know someday they’re gonna have a legitimate conclusion.
I’d adore to have a Batman comic-book continuity in which you pick-up from issue #1, and then 10 years later it still goes on in order. I also think it’d legitimately excite people because imagine how excited people would be upon seeing characters that we sorta know their fate pop up, like Dick or Jason or so. It’s ballsy and would take commitment but I honestly think it’d pay off.
Year one does not exist in the current timeline. They REMEMBER that timeline from the old modern age as explained by Lois lane in her series. People remember lives they never lived on worlds they never lived on. Batman and Catwoman having an argument about the boat and the street is proof of this. He remembers “golden age”. She remembers “modern age”. In the current timeline and continuity they met with her and her brother robbing a series of apartments. That was LITERALLY their first meeting.
Can I count some episodes of Batman: The Animated Series in this timeline?
If you are making your own personal headcanon, you could choose to include Lego Batman if you were so inclined lol… but seriously, if you are asking for my opinion on the matter, I only include things on my timeline that are referenced in the comics. That being said, there actually have been a handful of Rebirth references to Batman the Animated Series… Temple Fugate as Clock King, HARDaC, Veronica Vreeland, Emile Dorian, and Kyodai Ken. And virtually the entirety of the original Batman Beyond series has been canonized in some form.
Rebirth was not a reboot. It was a continuation of the new 52 timeline.
This is the fourth or fifth time you’ve commented this exact same thing, Leonard. And each time, I respond in an effort to start a genuine conversation, only to receive crickets in return. Saying something over and over doesn’t make you right, it makes you a troll. If you have anything constructive to add to the discussion, I’ll gladly listen, but until then give it a rest.
That’s because your only wanting your way. If your reading the comics like they are SUPPOSED to be read, you would see I’m correct.
Yes to an extent rebirth continued the nu52 but only for a little while (as the changes settled in)
Rebirth was specifically a refutation of the nu52 (which is why Dr Manhattan was shown to have removed chunks of time)
Once Wally met Barry (and then all the others) the nu52 ended (though some of the stuff created within it continues in the post Rebirth continuity)
Agreed to a certain degree. When Wally re-entered the timeline it disrupted the changes that Dr. Manhattan had caused.
As a result people who came in contact with Wally suddenly remembered parts of their past that had been “erased” by Dr. Manhattan and some of these elements started seeding into the timeline again.
It wasn’t an instant change and as such it probably doesn’t really count as a reboot, but more likely a “retroboot” or whatever you want to call it. It did kinda reboot the DCU as the New 52 timeline was changed, as past events reintegrated into the timeline, but in a somewhat different manner than we’re used to.
Then again, if we look back at both Zero Hour and Infinite Crisis, those events also changed the timeline, but without invalidating what came just before. The post-Crisis history was still mostly intact after Zero Hour, and after Infinite Crisis as well, but elements had been slightly altered. In both Zero Hour and Infinite Crisis we saw history being restarted or Earth being “recreated” effectively making them reboots of the timeline, but just as with Rebirth most of what came before still mattered.
What Infinite Frontier did was once again retro-booting past events into the timeline. Death Metal happened, but Earth was recreated. Most people don’t remember Death Metal but it still happened and characters were “just” returned to the new reestablished timeline, so it was another reboot even if it also carries on a lot of elements from both the New 52 and Rebirth, as well as adding even more parts from before the New 52.
if that were true, death metal wouldnt have stated anything that happened before or after that. THE MULTIVERSE/OMNIVERSE that now exists is in mainly two forms: The still current new 52/REBIRTH/INFINITE FRONTIER of the PRIME EARTH multiverse, and the original EARTH 2 multivcrse that NOW extends into 2021 in its own timeline due to an adventure golden age batman had with a bunch of time traveling superheroes from various points in the old timelines. He was told to enjoy his immortality because he would now age very slowly and still look in his 30’s or 40′ in 2021. odd i know to still only have two main multiverses but thems the breaks and that is how DC wrote it
This obviously doesn’t mean a tremendous amount, but upon asking the current writer of Wonder Woman if they were counting the whole ‘Wonder Woman debuted during WW2’ thing as in-continuity (since it was very clearly a vestige of 5G), they said that it would be ‘addressed when the time is right’:
https://twitter.com/michaelwconrad/status/1378937854068285441
Obviously, this isn’t a firm answer by any standard, but it does make me think that they probably aren’t keeping it, because if they were, he would have probably just said ‘yes’.
Oh nice. Well Conrad does say your assumption that her WWII days are canon is correct, so that seems like a yes of sorts. BTW, I’m really digging the current Wonder Woman run, best in years IMO. Maybe one day I’ll get back on Twitter, but today is not that day! Thanks for sharing. 🙂
I think that the assumption that was correct is that Conrad can’t answer the question, but you might be right.
So, with Waid’s World’s Finest #1 out, we’ve officially got Supergirl and Zod, Non, and Ursa being around in the Silver age restored, though Zod and Co.’s designs are much more along the lines of their motion picture designs than their actual Silver Age designs.
Not a lot of clues as to exact placement of the story itself, though your eye for that is obviously sharper than mine.
I’m sure it probably won’t be addressed, but I am curious as to which route they’ll take with Supergirl (and to a lesser extent Zod) re: their actual chronology. It feels like the smartest and least story-invalidating way to do it is simply, that in this new timeline, after Crisis on Infinite Earths/Infinite Crisis, folks couldn’t remember Supergirl’s real history, but it did HAPPEN. Like, she still arrived in the Loeb arc (and later again, in the New 52 arc), but if you were to time travel from right after Loeb’s arc back to the Silver Age, Supergirl would still be there.
Does that make sense? I think I’ve read too many Grant Morrison books, because it feels like it makes sense to me.
Hey Dylan! The Doom Patrol is a good indicator for placement, and I’ve put this story shortly after their debut. (The flashback within the story to Penguin, occurring “years prior” also helps with placement.) I think that applying the Dr. Manhattan-style memory loss/memory wipe thing works with Supergirl. Heck, maybe Supergirl’s death in the original Crisis has been returned to mainline canon? She dies and gets erased from everyone’s memory. Then she gets resurrected as you say. An explanation is certainly needed, so I think that’s the way to go for now (until someone says otherwise).
Tragic news:
Waid said in his AMA today that he doesn’t have an exact timeline location in mind for World’s Finest, just at some point nebulously during the silver age.
Alas, my poor heart.
Haha, you asked him that? Nicely done. In any case, as usual, it’s up to us! (Probably for the best anyway. Whenever Tom King or Brian Michael Bendis give specificity, their answers don’t make a lick of sense. Waid is playing it safe.)
Oh, did you hear that after Shadow War, Deathstroke Inc is doing a Deathstroke: Year One storyline? Interested to see where that goes.
I did not, always behind on my news!
How would you explain that at the end of New 52 Batman is at his Year Five and then starts Rebirth at his Year FIfteen. That means that suddenly with apparently no reason he is 5 years older. Is there a narrative explanation? Thks for this tremendous work
Hi, thanks for the kind words! Not sure I entirely understand your question, but I’ll give a shot at answering. The New 52 is an entirely different continuity than the Rebirth aka Infinite Frontier timeline. By the end of the New 52, Batman is actually in his tenth year. When things reboot, the stolen Dr. Manhattan time is returned (and over time, blocked memories return), which gives us the added, longer timeline—one that looks more like the old Golden/Silver/Modern history. Although, the skeletal framework of the New 52 also still remains. Hope that makes sense!
Don’t forget that Rebirth-branded titles don’t actually start a reboot. That’s still technically New 52 continuity. It’s not until Superman Reborn, a couple years into Rebirth that the reboot truly occurs.
Thank very much Collin! That’s exactly the answer I was hoping. It makes it much more clearer for me now. So I can tell that this reboot, in the case of Batman, occurs at the end of Doomsday Clock when Dr. Manhattan decides to restore the DC universe “as it was” (+New 52 skeletal framework), or would you say thay he starts remembering this old memories right after Superman Reborn?
The reboot occurs unequivocally at “Superman Reborn.” However, Dr. Manhattan’s blocked memories/erased time that give us the New 52 period are slowly erased bit by bit in various stories that follow. Notably, Doomsday Clock was supposed to do it in one fell swoop, but Johns was blocked by Didio. After Didio’s firing, DC moved forward as originally planned, officially returning those previously Dr. Manhattan erased parts to canon with Death Metal / Infinite Frontier / Flash Forward.
Any chance you’ve put together a chronology of the TPBs? I am trying to get a reliable reading order of the Batman TPBs post-Crisis
I’ve always relied on https://www.tradereadingorder.com/ or https://collectededitions.blogspot.com/ for this!
Any reason why I got a special shout out on this page?
Not mad, honestly flattered, but confused. I would think other people contribute more than myself. Either way, thanks! Was a highlight of my day.
Hey Dylan! Most of the site contributors are laser focused on the Silver Age and Modern Age. I think most folks don’t want to touch continuity until there’s like 15 years of safe buffer haha. You’ve been among a small group that have been instrumental in tackling current continuity in real-time more than most, so I wanted to give a shout out.
*insert gif from Starship Troopers gif* I’m doing my part!
But for real, I appreciated the shout out. I’m happy to help continue doing DC’s work for them since your site was what helped me originally understand what was happening with King’s Batman run and Tomasi’s Detective. I gotta organize my shelf somehow 🤷♂️
I’m surprised to get a special thanks on the page, i was really not expecting that! Thanks alot and happy to be contributing.
Of course! Nearly all of your suggestions wind up leading to legitimate additions or alterations, so I thought it was warranted. Thanks for your continued support!
I’m making this comment in light of the recent World’s Finest issue #40, where Batman was shown piloting a Bat-Mecha.
I personally think there’s a widespread misconception among some fans about Bruce’s intelligence—specifically, the belief that he’s on the same level as Tony Stark or Doctor Doom in terms of scientific genius within the DC Universe. I always found that comparison odd and not quite accurate. At first, I went along with it, but over time, I decided to dig deeper into the character, especially because this topic comes up frequently in fan debates and discussions,
So from the research I did on this topic I came to a conclusion that bruce mostly relies on assistance from other characters when it comes to his advanced technology.
For example, he gets support from Mister Terrific (X-ray tablet, energy tech), Cyborg (telepathy helmet, Boom Tube teleporter/Mother Box), Toyman Hiro (Mech suits), Sergie alexandrov (gadgets in zero year), Dr. Ivo (Insider Suit power-copy tech and Failsafe), Steel (Batwing combat capsule), and the entire justice league including lex luthor helped him in making hellbat, He even incorporated miniaturized red suns from Dr. Ray Palmer and the Bind of Veils from Hephaestus into the Justice Buster armor and basically purchased high end servers to counter flash.
He isn’t someone who single handedly invents god-tier tech in his basement like Tony Stark. This leads to my main point: people who overestimate batman’s abilities often try to equate him with characters like Doctor Doom or Reed Richards in terms of scientific genius and there are also those who misunderstand Batman’s intelligence, mistakenly believing he is that level of genius, and use this misinterpretation to criticize him—often throwing around terms like “plot armor” and “Batgod” to dismiss his abilities.—and that’s just not accurate. As confirmed by characters like World Forger and Mister Terrific, Bruce is one of the greatest strategists and tacticians in the DC Universe—not one of its top scientific minds. There’s a big difference.
When it comes to tech, Bruce is more of an integrator than an inventor in my opinion. I think he has a good enough understanding of science and a working knowledge of engineering—enough to apply existing technologies effectively and make his basic bat gadgets. In my opinion, Batman’s true strengths lie in criminology, strategy, tactical planning, forensic analysis, and detective work, with tech he is more of an application integrator scavenging tech from various adventures and people and repurposing it with others help.
Based on this analysis, I can make an educated guess that the Bat-Mecha we saw in World’s Finest was most likely provided by Toyman (hiro) or someone from WayneTech’s R&D division, even grant morrison whom people credit as someone who started the whole “Batgod” trend showed bruce getting his batdrones and batbots from waynetech R&D with lucious. Bruce obviously contributes ideas and designs, but in my opinion, the major technical credit should go to whoever the actual tech expert was. I love Batman, but this unnecessary overhyping of his capabilities needs to stop. He’s already incredibly skilled and competent. There’s a clear difference between Batman and someone like Iron Man.
That’s the conclusion I’ve come to based on my research on the character.
What do you think?
Hey Maab, looks like you’ve put quite a bit of thought and research into this subject. It’s definitely an interesting one for sure! I think the reason that people exaggerate Batman’s scientific capabilities and use the term “plot armor” in regard to him is because a lot of writers have exaggerated Batman’s scientific capabilities throughout the years. And plenty of writers have sketched a Bat God instead of going to the core of the character.
Denny O’Neil’s character bible best describes what Batman is supposed to be—both in yesteryear and today: “He is brilliant, with an IQ comfortably in the genius numbers. He is trained. An autodidact. He has traveled all over the world auditing classes and speaking to men who have knowledge he needs. He has total recall, which means he remembers everything he’s read, and he’s read a lot; speed-reading is one of the first skills he acquired. His learning, however, is limited. His knowledge of the liberal arts is slight—only what he’s picked up in passing—and his knowledge of the sciences is largely limited to the practical. So he knows very little about particle physics, but everything about ballistics. He probably cannot explain molecular bonding, but he knows how to test for every known poison. He’s spent little time looking through a telescope and much time looking through a microscope. He is conversant with every theory of criminal behavior, but might not be able to explain the differences between Freud and Jung.”
So I agree with your descriptions of what Batman is (or rather, what he’s supposed to be). And I think Batman is at his best when writers realize this. Continuity is a funny thing though. Enough writers have gone against that grain, depicting Batman as a super-genius inventor and science whiz. I’d say they went against the true nature of the character, but, in doing so, they’ve edged the character closer toward a Tony Stark at times—for better or worse.
All in all, to reiterate, I’d say that the true spirit and nature of the character is how you’ve described him above, and fans and writers would do well to remember it!
(I should add… I honestly think the “Batgod” didn’t really start to show up in comics until recently, only within the past decade.)
This was such a great comment—I completely agree with you, and with what Denny O’Neil said about Batman. Personally, I think if you take a closer look, or even make some educated guesses, you’ll notice that a lot of Batman’s so-called “god-tier” tech—like the Justice Buster in Scott Snyder’s run or Failsafe in Chip Zdarsky’s—isn’t something he created from scratch. It all seems to stem from the tech he’s collected, tracked down, purchased or encountered during his various adventures, which he then retools and reframes to suit his own purposes.
Failsafe, for instance, is essentially a repurposed Amazo robot—this perfectly illustrates the idea of Bruce being more of an application integrator with a working knowledge of tech, rather than a pure inventor or groundbreaking scientist. There’s a reason we rarely, if ever, see him creating revolutionary technology in his Gotham-based stories. Even Grant Morrison’s “sci-fi closet” is a perfect metaphor: it’s Justice League-level tech he’s either picked up from his teammates or scavenged during shared missions.
When Batman is operating solo in Gotham, his tech is usually limited to innovative (but grounded) gadgets. In James Tynion’s run, for example, he still needed Lucius Fox’s assistance with gear. And when he lost Wayne Enterprises, he was essentially helpless—Chip Zdarsky’s final arc even had the Riddler out-tech him, with Bruce’s own assistant suggesting a corporate merger. If he were truly on the level of Tony Stark or Doctor Doom, he would’ve rebuilt from the ground up and launched a new tech empire.
Even the writers often accused of glorifying “Batgod” subtly acknowledge this reality. In their own stories, Bruce is usually seen scavenging, adapting, and repurposing advanced technology from others, rather than inventing it all himself. I do believe he’s capable enough to build his standard Bat-suits and gadgets, but when it comes to anything beyond that—especially at a high-concept or sci-fi level—he almost always needs help from the true scientific geniuses of the DC Universe.
And that’s not a bad thing. Because like you said—and I agree—Batman’s true strengths lie in areas like detection, forensic analysis, criminology, strategy, and tactical planning. That’s the core of who he is, and when writers embrace that, he becomes a far more compelling and grounded character.
Hello collin, love your work here as i have said in the past many times. I am making this comment/analysis on zdarsky’s batman run and the overall theme and problems that i personally have with his run, let me know if you agree.
So starting with some positives, Chip Zdarsky’s run emphasizes that Bruce draws strength from his loved ones. The overarching narrative suggests that his humanity is rooted in his connections—with his Bat-Family, friends like Superman and the Justice League, his parental figures like Alfred and Leslie, and of course, Selina as his romantic partner. In the end, he rejects the cold logic of Zur-En-Arrh and the idea of indestructible robotic solutions, embracing his vulnerability and humanity instead.
However, this comes at the cost of making him appear overly passive or submissive—especially when he apologizes to Selina despite her reckless actions: creating a flawed plan to steal from the rich, turning the Bat-Family against him, and being unfaithful. That’s why I feel Gotham War and Tini Howard’s Catwoman run undermined Chip’s intended message. The narrative positioning Selina as Bruce’s emotional anchor doesn’t land effectively when her character has been portrayed as toxic, disloyal, and unreliable throughout these arcs.
I honestly don’t understand Why are writers writing stories like Gotham War, and why do they keep portraying Batman as a loser or even the villain in these stories? I’ve spoken to some fans of selina who felt Gotham War was nothing short of character assassination. While I might not be fully familiar with all of Batman and Catwoman’s history, based on what I’ve seen from recent runs, Catwoman comes across as unreliable, unfaithful, and frankly a terrible partner for Bruce. She turned his own family against him and then had the audacity to scold him—as if she’s some kind of saint for training criminals. And yet, the writers made Bruce apologize to her? For what, exactly? What is even going on with these stories?
Sorry for the analysis/rant, i love posting here and talking with you about batman.
I was discussing this with someone, and they mentioned that DC and Marvel intentionally create relationship drama like bruce x selina and peter x MJ because it sells and helps keep their characters perpetually young. Personally, I think that’s a poor approach—nothing more than a cheap gimmick.
I think instead of relying on cheap gimmicks like relationship drama, writers should focus on other aspects of Batman’s character. In my opinion, they should have allowed him to settle down with a wife and still tell compelling stories—showing that he can be married and remain a cool, effective hero. Batman is supposed to be a ninja Sherlock Holmes, not a character from a soap opera.
Take Goku from Dragon Ball as an example—he’s been married throughout the series, has two kids, and Dragon Ball remains one of the highest-grossing franchises of all time with goku being an equally iconic shounen hero. It didn’t rely on forced relationship drama to stay engaging, and neither should Batman
Haha i was literally in the middle of writing to you and most of it was about comparing Dragon Ball to Batman…
I’ll respond to your comments—both the ones here here and the Zdarsky one you posted in the Rebirth Early Years section of the site—just off the top of my head, freeform style, so pardon if it’s a bit messy. I’m a big Bat-Cat shipper and I would have loved for their marriage to have stuck, but, like you said, DC makes it very difficult for us. Within the world of the DCU, I like the idea of the Bat and Cat overcoming their very obvious differences, each showing personal growth to find true love, but you have so many different writers doing so many different things. If just one writer “character assassinates” her then how can she come back from that? How can their relationship be salvaged? The same thing can also be said of Batman’s relationship with Red Hood and even Damian to an extent.
In DBZ, when Vegeta turned face, he was still essentially the same guy, same gruff traits and motivations… but his values shifted and he saw the light. He grew as a character. In the world of superhero comics, there’s very little room for growth—it’s just not allowed by the corporate overlords that can only see the characters as IP. And yeah maybe this is why editorial uses the cheap gimmick of forced sexual drama/trauma repeated ad nauseam. Like you, I’d love to see genuine character development over long periods of time (where folks learn from things instead of being doomed to repeat the same errors over and over), the kind of evolution that you’d see from a real human being over generations, especially from a family guy like Bruce. It’s hard to accomplish this when you have dozens and dozens of people contributing to the story as opposed to one authorial voice (like a Toriyama for example).
In the always fascinating world of serialized superhero comics, the readership must interpret all these sometimes chaotic and contradictory storytelling voices, synthesizing them into something that makes sense. And if the true love of your life burns you once, maybe you forgive and try again. I think there’s something very powerful—and something very Denny O’Neil inspired—about Batman humbling himself in order to make things work in both his romantic and family relationships. But if your true love burns you twice… and thrice… and so on and so forth… (or even if the relationship just has a history of almost never working out) then an ugly—or at least eye-rolling—pattern emerges. I think Zdarsky was really trying hard to flip the switch one final time, to push the Bat-Family into a new positive paradigm. Did it work? I dunno. And who knows, maybe we’ll stay there now (or at least for a while)… sigh.
I will say, I absolutely love where the Bat-Family wound up by the very end of Zdarsky’s arc, but the Bat-Family has been in that good (and, frankly, compelling) place before. So, like you’ve said, it’s difficult to get pumped for a status quo that you dig when there’s a long history of that desired narrative feeling fluctuating so often. I’m a little weary of writers having to break everyone down to their worst versions in order to rebuild them. I’d like to see—for lack of a better term—progressive storytelling that doesn’t deconstruct or reduce, but instead is additive. It’s 2025 and nearly everything since 1939 is canon in some way, shape, or form. There’s no reason that our primary line Batman shouldn’t/couldn’t be facing novel challenges (and reaping the rewards) for a superhero of his age (i.e. a crimefighter in his 40s). And this includes looking back at his losses and loves from yesteryear, having learned from all that’s come before, knowing who he can and cannot trust, being sure of himself in most areas but exploring new ground in regard to new experiences—such as the functioning of his Bat-Family, thinking about what he can give to the next generation, etc.
I think a lot of writers view Batman this way, and they try to find novel challenges for him that are appropriate based upon the character’s age/position in life. The problem is that it only takes one writer to contradict this view (or, in Zdarsky’s case, deconstruct and rebuild in order to reemphasize a certain status quo), and it’s like a wrench being hurled into the works.